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Anvil1972
Vassal
Posts: 38
(7/16/03 10:32 am)
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KOS Philosophy not yet KOS Policy
I don't know about everyone but I really took Haeguns KOS Philosophy to heart. I think it should be our KOS Policy, but this is far from the case.

After spending most of the day in -the city- yesterday... and watching many people come out of that ToL, I can honestly say that the general guild members reaction to this situation is soft.

These are statements from Haeguns KOS Philosophy post:

"Until further notice anyone that does not fall under the nations listed below are to be hunted and killed no exceptions."

"Anyone not in these guilds or nations are KOS no questions asked."

"Look into finding out if any TOLs are open. If they are we need to set up a squad there to greet people."

Yesterday, anyone coming out of the ToL in -the city- claiming to be Reborn had a get out of jail free card. Personally, if I bind myself to an open ToL, I know I'm taking my chances. If I was really doing recon, I would log out, log in my main... talk to an IC and get them to message the group occupying the city to let me leave.

To many people that came out of -the city- were allowed to walk away. The following policy Haegun has stated should relieve any of you from feeling guilty about killing anyone:

"I and the IC will deal with anything that arises from innocent bystanders."

Everytime we deviate from policy we set presidence. The current president, is: claim to be Reborn and they'll let you walk. Anyone binding to an open ToL in a fortress like that knows what they are doing.

Just like the person who build that place knows what their doing. In my opinion, policy needs to be cut and dry and simple such that everyone in the guild knows what to do under any given circumstance whether an IC is on or not. If policy is short, simple and clear we will act consistently and people will know what to expect.

I'm still new to the game, and I don't fully understand this servers politics, but when someone builds a fortress like that in our backyard it should be dealt with, and we can talk to the owners after it's been baned.

In the end, that city will do us no good.

Anvil

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kingrobmm
(IC) Baron
Posts: 258
(7/16/03 12:36 pm)
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Re: KOS Philosophy not yet KOS Policy
Yesterday was an eye opener for the Nation on the way We are starting to conduct buisness on the Northern part of Ice Isle. If most of you have not known this yet please be aware now.

The northern part of Ice Isle is ours and our allies. The only guilds allowed to stay peacfully there are guilds that come and ask us for space. Frost Haven is where that line starts. Anything below that I can care less about unless it is an open tree that causes us grief. The city Old Arwic is owned by Lords Of The Dead (LOTD for short). LOTD is a Reborn Nation guild. They bind to our tree to be able to keep thier tags. They have been around for a good while now. This was stated to clarify why their town is never brought up. There is a new Tree built near them and I have left it up to them to handle that situation.

Now to the buisness of this post. When I say that anyone not listed in the guilds I posted about are to be killed on site, I mean kill them and ask questions later. If they are not Reborn or a friendly nation of ours and stumble into a City that we are seiging and nobody sent out a warning about so and so coming in through a summons or Runemaster or whatever other means of transportation KILL them. I can assure you that I can take one of my alts and TRY to walk into 187 or R30's town saying that I am a guild member and will get KOS and then asked later who I am. If I killed someone who was legit and not lying about affiliation then I would appologize for my actions and then bitch them out for not being Nation crested. If I am ever in a position that I need to go out stealthed and drop my tags to infiltrate an open city or whatever else, I would hope to god that if I went to a Nation city afterwards that I would be KOS as soon as I got within tracking distance.

There was an issue last night with my orders being followed and another Reborn Nation guild getting one of their alts killed coming into -The City- through the RuneMaster. The person that was killed was being an ass about it and got onto his main and along with a friend of his procedded to come to the defense of The Fury of Scorns city. Once there the 2 of them formed a group with the rest of the people there. Once the R30's were routed out they turned on the Person who Initially killed the ones alt at the Open tree. This was an act of vengence and revenge. Instead of going to the IC's of their guild they took matters into their own hands. I then got in touch with the IC that was on at the time and told him/her the story. He was told an entirelly different one from the 2 that turned on the part member. The IC asked what would smooth out the situation and I informed him that Banishment was in order for their deeds. I then asked to get summoned to their town to get this all sorted out so that if there was anything that could be arranged we could decide together and try to work things out for both our Guilds. I got there and automatically got their IC and the 2 into a group and sat there and listened to the way that they were talking to Me and their own IC. They were beligerant, assinine, foul mouthed and condesending to the IC and I both. I along with the other IC treated them with nothing but a respectfull tone and got nowhere with them. I got fed up at this point and told the IC to Ban them on the spot. This was done and I informed them that their stay on Undead Isle was over extended and to be off the Island in less than 5 mins. I talked to the IC and was informed that they were always at the root of some problem and that he and the rest of his guild mates were releived that they were leaving. I like to visit other peoples towns and was there for a bit waiting on Anvil to summon me back to AP. I looked at there vendors pricing and stuff like that. I was just pokin around when my screen showed the IC that I worked with being hit repeatedly with Shadow Bolt. I ran towards the section that the action was taking place to find the 2 newley Baned people trying to kill the IC. A stun and a few nukes later they got a ride over to one of the Ruins. I then got my ride back home and went about buisness as usual.

I appologize for my longish post but I have a point to make that will hopefully be aparant.

Only a total jerk will get angry when he gets pk'd by a Nation Member in a place that he should not have been and with no clear way of knowing him/her as an ally.
I will also not tolerate the actions described above from one of my brother or sisters of the Silver Hand guild. Attacking a Nation member will get you baned. If you have a grievance please send me a Tell in game or an other IC or even send me a PM and I will get it sorted out through the proper channels.

Haegun Brimstone
Co-Guild Leader
The Order of the Silver Hand

Seapia
(IC) Baron
Posts: 201
(7/16/03 1:51 pm)
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Re: KOS Philosophy not yet KOS Policy
Thank you for telling us the whole thing since some of it was known in /gu anyway.

I appreciate the way you handled this and know that this is what needs to happen. It is also a lesson to all of us ICs that this is how we can handle things if you aren't around and we will for our members and other ICs if we need to.

I agree with Anvils and hear you and have clarified and always confront anyone in AP with newb tags etc. HAven't killed one yet but think I would if their sotry didn't stack up or they weren't quickly vouched for.

I think that our lax attitude about this is a big factor about our perception of SH. I think we should be MERCILESS when it comes to North Ice. I will try to hide my carebeear heart *giggles*

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IC of Silver Hand,
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pregister
(IC) Baron
Posts: 33
(7/16/03 4:01 pm)
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Re: KOS Philosophy not yet KOS Policy
I was the one who killed and was killed. I'd really like to thank Haegun for sorting it out. There was much gnashing of teeth and cursing and stomping about in my basement when this all happened. I wanted to track the bastards down and get my revenge RIGHT THEN.

But, of course, thats exactly what they'd done to me. Couldn't very well head out and do the same thing. Plus, i'm not all that tough. ;)

It was an incredible comfort and relief to know that it was being handled, though. I wasn't expecting the two to be kicked out of their guild. That was an added bonus. I think it goes a long way towards showing that our nation _works_...that if we stick to our standards and our laws, things will come out ok.

Thanks again, Rob.

-TomTom

kadoro
Member
Posts: 10
(7/18/03 7:20 am)
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Re: KOS Philosophy not yet KOS Policy
Well said and handled by all. Especially Haegun.

Good job Silver Hand

Kalimah- R3 Thief

Kalimah- R3 Thief
Alts?? None worth mentioning yet.

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